Hahahaha wrote:It has been shown by study after study that vegatarians and vegans do not live as long as omnivours.
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We did not create anything, especially if you take the God angle. Find proof of the origin of the domesticated cattle beast.. Just try.
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You have been brainwashed into thinking that animal life is just as valuable as human life. Gimme a break.. Let's say for a second yuou are on your lawn with your child. Your cat or dog runs into the street and your chjild chases. Which name comes out of you mouth firts.. Who do you call back? If you call the pet back first there is something seriously wrong with you.
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Human beings need animal protein to survive. It's a fact.
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Your view of the Bible is so bent I don't know where to begin with you. Let's just leave it as.. In the begining, there was nothing, then God made stuf, then God made us, then God told us to use the stuff he made and gave to us.
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You like peaches? Do you have any idea how many rabbits are killed each year so they don't eat the bark of the peach trees?
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If you want a food that has no animal impact.. well, I don't think there are any, so good luck with that.
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I bet you wear Nikes or some other sweat shop brand, but not leather... So silly, so absolutely misinformed.
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99% of agro-food operations are not cruel. Most farmers put the welfare of their livestock above their own. It's called beef husbandry for a reason.
Jackalope wrote:
I agree animal testing is very wrong and so is killing them just for the hell of it. But I'm sorry I'm gonna keep on eating AND enjoying meat on a daily basis. If Cows weren't ment to be food then why do they just stand there and let themselves be killed? No they Know they're here for two reasons.........STEAK's and HAMBURGERS!
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Obviously you are a vegaterien and there is nothing in the world wrong with that. But I also think there is nothing wrong with eating meat either.
Jackalope wrote:No prob Nat! Hey, I was just curious when did you stop eating meat? No this is not so I can turn anything around I just wanted to know what made you decide to stop. My
youngest daughter doesn't like meat at all and in fact even tho she's only 9 she has mentioned vegaterien stuff before so I was just curious as to weather you were the same way that she is now. She does eat meat but she makes it well known she's not big on the idea.
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And just the other day she was telling me about a school project were they wright letters to big companies and try to get a response, Well she is wighting to some cosmetics company and is asking them if they hurt animals to make their make up. I'm very proud of her for at such a young age to be THAT conscience about the brand of make up she wears ( not much she is only 9 ) that it not harm animals
to see if the lip gloss causes any problems.
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Besides when you think about it animal testing is about the single stupidest thing they could do. Did you know that if Louie
Pastor had tested PENNICILIEN on a guinnie pig it wouldn't exist because it kills them almost instantly. And spraying crap into a bunnies eyes to see if it hurts them is equally as stupid as thier eyes are so different then ours that you can in no way make a comparison. Oh well I guess if more 9 year olds thought like her then all this animal testing may just disappear someday.
Jackalope wrote:Besides when you think about it animal testing is about the single stupidest thing they could do. Did you know that if Louie Pastor had tested PENNICILIEN on a guinnie pig it wouldn't exist because it kills them almost instantly. And spraying crap into a bunnies eyes to see if it hurts them is equally as stupid as thier eyes are so different then ours that you can in no way make a comparison. Oh well I guess if more 9 year olds thought like her then all this animal testing may just dis
sappear someday.
Jackalope wrote:Well all that research may be a touch tooo much for her to try and tackle right now but thanks.
And it would deff appear we are in total agreement about animal testing and I would venture to guess animal cruelty in general as well. I can not stand someone whos hurts animals just for the hell of it. Now true I have killed a dog with a shotgun before but that was because it bit the sh-t out of my leg!! So I went and got my 12gauge and
put 2 rounds into his furry little ass!! Hey I saved animal control from haveing to do it right?
So it would be your opinion then I should encorage her to be a vegaterin. Now I don't
demand she eat meat but its there in case she wants it. I feel this is the best way to
deal with it, You know let HER decide.
Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:
and id hope that if u had had experience in US factory farming ud disapprove of it.
things like
-massive overloads of antibiotics on a daily basis(sending the evolutionary mutation of a virus/bacteria into hyperdrive until it eventually can not be stopped by the misused antibiotics)
-massive use of growth hormones causing chickens as they grow to grow so quickly that some of their legs snap or their organs burst because they are growing faster than their body is makign room for the organs
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Adam Asmus wrote:Nathaniel O'Flaherty wrote:
and id hope that if u had had experience in US factory farming ud disapprove of it.
things like
-massive overloads of antibiotics on a daily basis(sending the evolutionary mutation of a virus/bacteria into hyperdrive until it eventually can not be stopped by the misused antibiotics)
-massive use of growth hormones causing chickens as they grow to grow so quickly that some of their legs snap or their organs burst because they are growing faster than their body is makign room for the organs
Well thanks for attempting to destroy my family's way of life.
My Father and his father and his father have been farmers for over 80 years, and it has been within the past 18 years that we have gone totaly to layer chickens.
I will tell you right now that you have been mis-informed by PETA...some or most of what they say is slightly true, but all of it, EVERY LAST BIT, is skewed. I help my dad raise 192,000 chickens. And I will be the first to complety destroy any myths that have been put into you by PETA
PETA is not the place i go to for all my info. secondly, they are not myths. i will continue on=
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You like eggs right? Do you eat eggs? Well if you do I suppose that you want your birds to have a wonderful life out on the farm, waking up every morning pecking at the ground to pick up some organic feed right? Well let me be the first to tell you that if you want that, I hope you're ready to suffer from serious Salmonelia poisoning.
i am VEGAN.
no
-dairy
-eggs
-meat
-animal products
so no i do not like eggs and no i do not eat them.
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Let me explain, chickes are held in cages, in barns that are climate controled 365 days a year, and their guano is kept away from them, at least 2 inches, below slotted cage floors, becuase chickens peck at the ground, it's what they do, they are birds. And whats on the ground if they arn't on slotted floors? @!#$, you wouldn't eat your own crap now would you? See they arn't the brighest birds in the world, and Salmonelia is a bad disease, you can die from it, and its in chicken crap. And what ever is in the food that they eat goes into the eggs and meat...there ya go salmonelia poisioning.
yeah ur right, they are kept in cages.
in which they live their entire lives correct? that is until u send them to the slaughterhouse.
the way you are keeping your chickens in cages where they do not have enough room to barely even walk causes them to quickly develop muscle atrophy.
and after 1-2 years of an egg laying hens life because of the increased egg production due to growth hormones develop what is called cage layer fatigue. where the bones get weak a brittle due to high egg production and little to no excersize and movement.
and what about forced molting? i hope to god u dont do that, but im gunna guess u do because it is a common practice introduced by industrialized farming
forced-molting is when a farmer withholds food from the chickens for up to 2 weeks. water as well can be withheld for days. The chickens loose one-third of their body weight . Those who survive this shock to their system will start a new cycle of egg production.
and you do that because a natural molting cycle is abotu 4 months, and of course factory farmers cant be bothered with an animal goign through its regular cycles right?
what size are your cages? typical is 12 inches by 20 inches(240 sq. in.) a single chicken takes up abotu 100sq in. so even if there was only 1 chicken in each cage they would barely have enough room to fully extend their wings. but of course u dont have 1 chicken per cage do you? more like 3, 4...5 even.
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Now about the cages, cause im sure that your gonna freak about that. It's purely for the pecking order. You have always heard about it, we as humans use it, the strongest pick on the weakest and then the weak die, spreading disease, killing more. Well we put them in cages to help with the pecking order, birds that are not as agressive woudn't get any food, becuase I dont have the time to hand feed almost 200,000 birds, to make sure that they are "equal" even though they arn't, survival of the fittest once again.
i talked about the cages in the above... but ill go on.
so instead of having the birds all together where the more aggressive birds will fight with the submissive ones, u think its better to stick 3-5 of them in a cage together? what happens when u have 1 agressive bird and 2 submissive birds? theres a fight, but the submissive birds can not back down. they have no where to go and they end up getting pecked to death.
but i guess thats a much better idea...
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Now the meds, PETA needs to do is resarch, poultry doesn't have a very strong immune system, and all vaccinations are done after the chickens have been sexed.
meds are of course needed when ur dealing with such high numbers of animals all kept in tight facilities. especially when those animals are animals with already weak immune systems.
however the answer isnt to over medicate them so that they can artificially survive conditions they shouldnt be able to. the answer would be to have them in conditions that they can actually NATURALLY survive. if u have to constantly give meds to an animal to artificially make it able to withstand conditions it shouldnt be in, ur doing something wrong.
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Growth hormens are used, yes, becuase you would have to take even more birds lives to get the same ammount of food, so what would you rather have? More birds killed, or some birds with broken legs?
i would take neither choice. how is that possible?
its very possible, when ur top motive isnt profit.
instead of just making less meat per chicken by growing them naturally, youd rather pump them all full of hormones so they grow unnaturally larger, to the point where many of their bodies collapse. then in turn those high amounts of hormones are then transfered into our human bodies. yes chicken growth hormones going into a human body... sound healthy? its not, and as i explained before europe currently has a ban on all imported us BEEF because they were finding newborns and infants growing breasts due to hormones in beef that was used in imported baby food.
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Just to let you know, my dad get $0.09 a dozen for every doezen he produces, he loves chickens always has, he was in FFA and was with poultry judging. One time while weighing birds, I put one back into its cage and it had a heart attack, it broke my heart, this bird that I had just been holding died in my hands, it just got to stressed and died, and you say were heartless...
ok so im glad your heart "broke" when a chicken died in your hands, but apparently it does not phase u much. since u have no problem at the end of your layer chickens efficient egg producing cycle has ended, sending all 192,000 of them to be taken to a slaughter house where they are further mishandled and then killed and boiled.
why doesnt THAT break your heart? oh because it makes u money.
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I know there are bad farmers out there, but they are out there just like bad cops, there are a few that spoil it for everyone. I know that some farms arn't good, they just arn't but don't quit eating animal products becuase you've been told some half-truths that are used to make the lives of farmers even more difficult, It's hard enough for people in this line of work to make a living...they dont need people like you sticking your @!#$ nose into something that has been working for hundreds of thousands of years.
first of all, ANY factory/industrialized farm uses practices which are disgusting and uneeded.
i did not quit eating animals because i was told some half truths. maybe if your read the whole thread you would see my reasons.
it called having compassion for all life. something u obviously do not have if you are apparently proudly working on a factory/industrialized farm.
i already gave these figures but u obviously need them again to realize that not eating meat is not some load of BS that wacko lieing PETA facist made up.
Albert Einstein
Coretta Scott King Martin L.K., Jr's wife
H.G. Wells
Henry Ford
Leonardo da Vinci
Mohandas Ghandi
Queen Sophia Queen of Spain
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Vincent Van Gogh
all vegetarian
nearly the entire country of thailand(official religion of thailand is buhdism = 360 million Buddhists ), parts of india, hindus and jains (7 million Jains in India)
Muslim sects such as the Sufis and Bahai's
ALL VEGETARIAN for THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of years some hundreds of thousands of years.
and i REALLLY dont know what you are saying has been working for thousands of years.
factory farming did not even get realized until the industrial revolution hence the name industrialized farming/factory farming.
the industrial revolution in the US was not in full swing until between the 1860's to 1890's and later
so at MOST factory farmign has only been around for 135 years. but apparently to you it has been working for THOUSANDS of years...
:::Creative Draft Image Manipulation Forum:::
Adam Asmus wrote:
Well thanks for attempting to destroy my family's way of life.
My Father and his father and his father have been farmers for over 80 years, and it has been within the past 18 years that we have gone totaly to layer chickens.
I will tell you right now that you have been mis-informed by PETA...some or most of what they say is slightly true, but all of it, EVERY LAST BIT, is skewed. I help my dad raise 192,000 chickens. And I will be the first to complety destroy any myths that have been put into you by PETA
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You like eggs right? Do you eat eggs? Well if you do I suppose that you want your birds to have a wonderful life out on the farm, waking up every morning pecking at the ground to pick up some organic feed right? Well let me be the first to tell you that if you want that, I hope you're ready to suffer from serious Salmonelia poisoning.
Quote:
Let me explain, chickes are held in cages, in barns that are climate controled 365 days a year, and their guano is kept away from them, at least 2 inches, below slotted cage floors, becuase chickens peck at the ground, it's what they do, they are birds. And whats on the ground if they arn't on slotted floors? @!#$, you wouldn't eat your own crap now would you? See they arn't the brighest birds in the world, and Salmonelia is a bad disease, you can die from it, and its in chicken crap. And what ever is in the food that they eat goes into the eggs and meat...there ya go salmonelia poisioning.
Quote:
Now about the cages, cause im sure that your gonna freak about that. It's purely for the pecking order. You have always heard about it, we as humans use it, the strongest pick on the weakest and then the weak die, spreading disease, killing more. Well we put them in cages to help with the pecking order, birds that are not as agressive woudn't get any food, becuase I dont have the time to hand feed almost 200,000 birds, to make sure that they are "equal" even though they arn't, survival of the fittest once again.
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Now the meds, PETA needs to do is resarch, poultry doesn't have a very strong immune system, and all vaccinations are done after the chickens have been sexed.
Quote:
Growth hormens are used, yes, becuase you would have to take even more birds lives to get the same ammount of food, so what would you rather have? More birds killed, or some birds with broken legs?
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Just to let you know, my dad get $0.09 a dozen for every doezen he produces, he loves chickens always has, he was in FFA and was with poultry judging. One time while weighing birds, I put one back into its cage and it had a heart attack, it broke my heart, this bird that I had just been holding died in my hands, it just got to stressed and died, and you say were heartless...
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I know there are bad farmers out there, but they are out there just like bad cops, there are a few that spoil it for everyone. I know that some farms arn't good, they just arn't but don't quit eating animal products becuase you've been told some half-truths that are used to make the lives of farmers even more difficult, It's hard enough for people in this line of work to make a living...they dont need people like you sticking your @!#$ nose into something that has been working for hundreds of thousands of years.
GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:The Atrophy issue is moot. Most chickens in Factory farms don't live beyond their First or second adult month. I believe Hens live a bit longer (depending on egg production), but I'm not entirely certain... I've not read about poultry farms in depth yet.
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Free ranging Chickens and other animals is fine, but you have to keep them rotating out of yards etc. and you have to blunt their beaks so they don't peck the hell out of each other.
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For the Veg/Vegan idea of a long and healthy life, some live longer, some don't (What I'm saying is, the diet isn't conclusively linked to longer life or higher quality of life). Einstein only started (begrudginly) following a vegetarian diet when he started having severe health problems later in his life. Mahatma Ghandi was veg by relgious doctrine.
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Factory farming doesn't impart any/many truly new techniques.
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. it just simplify's exisiting husbandry techniques to increase productivity and cope with a much higher number of animals. Also, PETA and many other animal rights' activist organisations seem to go off on a bent about animals getting horrendous doses of antibiotics... which is utterly not true at the very best and an out and out deception at very worst:
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Farmers work on a speculative market, and if they had to incorporate the costs of all these anti-biotics they'd go bankrupt really, really fast (Drug costs for large animals (forget the large animal vet bill) is usually on the order of $3000-$3500 just for the drugs, and including the fact that once the animals have been put on those drugs they can't be sold as A or B grade meats, only C grade utility meats, figure they're taking a $10K hit on a $15000 animal. Feed is roughly $7000 for a 3 yr old head of cattle). I'm really sick of seeing that pseudo-factoid pushed out like its fact (not just by you either Nate, don't take this personally), and I wish you'd at least read up on it a bit because that flight of fancy just isn't true. It's not true in bovine or porcine husbandry, and I'm guessing it's not in poultry farming either, spending that kind of money to decrease the auction price on a cattle is counter-productive.
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BTW, There haven't been humans for hundreds of thousands of years, Nate. We've existed as a species for about 60,000 years since the days of homoerectus.