Nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to the shenanigans of "agents of the crown". Hell, if some ali-baba types want to sart making them go kaboom, I'll be more than happy to grab a beer, kick back and watch the show.
I'll be damned if I'll do anything to help the scum like I did on 9-11. @!#$ 'em--they want to act like nazi trash, thats how they get treated. Only problem is I dont think a few nutbars with fertilizer would make any difference. Whats needed is something along the lines of Loony Lieders pole shift




Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.

their biggest crime was talking @!#$ on the internet.

3 tons of ammonium nitrate.. Hello?!?!? What purpos did it have aside from making bombs? These guys were not farmers, in case you didn't notice.

There biggest crime was buying the materials to make a big bad bomb. That's a fact.

PAX

You ever heard of a little thing called BUSINESS ???

its pretty simple actually. Buy any comodity in bulk, then sell it in lower quantities at a raised priced in order to make money.

Since @!#$ WHEN are farmers the only ones "allowed" to do business in fertilizer?

I'm not an avionics technition, but I have enough aircraft wire to build about 100,000 timing devices----does that make me a terrorist?

No wonder I consider the human race iddiots.




Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.

Im wondering how a bunch of musslim kids with beards would go about buying so much fertilizer, wouldnt that seem suspicious? The police say they had it but they aint saying where they got it, are they? am i wrong here? was there a receipt?

planted evidence?

The sale of Ammonium Nitrate has been regulated for decades, long before 911 because of it's explosive properties. If they were purchaseing it for resale it would have been a more general purpose fertalizer. They placed an order for 31-0-0 fertalizer, they highest grade of ammonium nitrate available. The delivery was to go to a small store in an urban area. That fertalizer would kill a lawn, and be totally inappropriate for flowers or fruiting trees. That would be the urban fertalized market, not a fert intended almost exclusively for farm use growing corn.

Wire doesn't explode. Ammonium Nitrate can explode accidently if it imprperly stored and handled.

Which one of us is surrounded by idiots? You have a history of scratching the surface and jumping to conclusions without actually doing your homework. There is no urban purpose for 31-0-0 ferts.

The order was intercepted by police. They never actually recieved any Ammonium Nitrate.

If I bought gallons of Nitric Acid, Suphuric Acid and Glycerine, I would expect to be arrested.

PAX

91SubirdSSE: Ammonium Nitrate is a tracked substance. You can't buy it and not have it go unnoticed. It's like trying to buy dynamite on the sly... it doesn't happen in Canada.

These people had no business buying 3 grams, let alone 3 TONS of that substance. It's like buying Cyanide or Castor bean... There are certainly legitimate uses for it in quantity, but, when you have no casue to purchase it, it does tend to send up alarm bells.

I don't have any connection with this case, but I would imagine that a clerk or manager noticed that these people were buying quantity, and shipping to a place that was not a farm, and phoned in a tip.

Manchesterbeast: I would assume that the whole reason there was so many doing the purchasing was to evade detection. Planting evidence is generally counter-productive. The process of discovery in the event of a trial (which there will be, I have no doubt) would make it hard to plant evidence and not have it found out.





Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

LMAO, GAM--there are a LOT of "tracked" and "controlled" substances around---which means squat in the real world.

google "how to make ammonium nitrate", and the process shows up in the 1st 25 results...google some other stuff and it takes less than 25 to get around any tracked substance annoyances, It can be distilled from ANY grade fertilizer, so there would be no need for them to go after the pure stuff and leave records. Only a freaking MORON would walk into some place and ask to buy a large quantity of explosives-grade ANYTHING when with very little effort they can get around any traking means. (granted, only a freking moron would think going after a few building would do any good, but thats a different topic)

Someody planning on doing a tim mcvey couldnt think of that themselves? gimme a break.

SOMETHING stinks to high heaven. A setup (with EXTREMELY stupid setupees), as someone else said--or a legitamte use that has been twisted to suit propaganda purposes. Either way, it stinks, my distrust of government types aside.






Rice.....Part of a balanced Pontiac diet.

I think if you look it up, Ammonium Nitrate is a liquid that gets combined with Urea in order to make fertillizer pellets. The Liquid is DEFINITELY regulated... Urea... well, if you want to go to a farm and distill animal piss, be my guest.

If you REALLY want to make it, sure, you can go and buy about a million bags of Scott's Turf Builder, but, you'd also need about 4000 store fronts, and that can become rather expensive.

Very little effort? Not hardly.

Besides, what's the point of setting up a group of individuals like this? Again, there isn't any. The simple fact is that these people were fingered after the break up of US and British Al-Queda command cells. They were being monitored when it was found out that they bought that amount of fertillizer (which has no legitimate purpose for individuals in a city, they're not on a farm, lets not forget...) on a single credit card and delivered to a given location.

Timothy McVeigh at least was at the Nicols' FARM when he made his device.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

These clowns are claiming their innocence. If the RCMP have found you with 3 tons of ammonium nitrate and you don't have a farm then you are guilty. If you don't like it that much here than go to back to your own country!!!!!! I was watching a CBC report, basically in England and the Netherlands they are forcing immigrants to integrate speak dutch, no burkas, etc. They want people to be a part of the soceity not stay shackled in neighboorhoods.

Quote:

BRAMPTON, Ont. (CP) - Tiny solitary cells under constant illumination, a mere 20 minutes of fresh air daily, and beatings at the hands of guards are indicative of the "torture" endured by some of the 17 people accused of plotting terrorist attacks in Canada, lawyers for the group said Monday.

The allegations of "cruel and unusual punishment" came as the court imposed a blanket publication ban on the legal proceedings, preventing the public from learning of any further evidence in a case of stunning allegations that has captured headlines around the world.

The treatment of the suspects, accused of plotting a number of terrorist strikes in Ontario that allegedly included bombings and taking senior politicians hostage, "constitutes torture," lawyer Rocco Galati said outside the court.

"That torture includes being kept in a room that's lit 24 hours a day, being woken up every half-hour, being beaten by the guards, on and on and on," said Galati, who represents Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, a 21-year-old health sciences graduate of McMaster University.

The solitary confinement cells in which the men and youths are housed at the Maplehurst Correctional Complex in Milton, Ont., are a scant 3.4 metres by 1.8 metres, are sealed by a concrete door with only a small slit for meal delivery, and have no windows, said lawyer David Kolinsky.

Twenty-year-old terror suspect Zakaria Amara was beaten by a guard after he giggled because he felt ticklish while being searched, alleged Kolinsky, who said the guard pinned his client to the ground, drilled his knuckle into the man's cheek and said, "Is this funny?"

Many of the conditions outlined by lawyers are standard practice, said Community Safety and Correctional Services Ministry spokeswoman Julia Noonan.

"All our institutions are lit 24 hours a day," said Noonan, who added the lights are dimmed in the evenings. "For security reasons, we need to ensure that proper supervision is possible."

Twenty minutes of "fresh air and/or exercise" is also standard, and the "standard dimension" solitary cells are expressly built for "one person."

Physical abuse, however, is not tolerated by the ministry, she said.

"All ministry employees are required to adhere to those policies and they're held criminally responsible for any excess use of force."

Male family members and supporters formed a protective ring around the women as they made their way into the courthouse Monday. Among them was wheelchair-bound Karim Khadr, the teenage son of Ahmed Said Khadr, an associate of Osama bin Laden who was killed in a fire fight with Pakistani forces in 2003.

Two of the terror suspects, Mohammed Dirie and Yasim Mohamed, are already in prison on weapons charges. Fifteen others were rounded up by police June 2 in a co-ordinated sweep, followed the next day by a news conference in which authorities displayed various items that they alleged were to be used in terrorist attacks.

The display included a computer, a gun, and a bag of ammonium nitrate - a commonly available fertilizer that was used to deadly ends in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Stunning allegations contained in a Crown synopsis, and shared with the media by defence lawyer Gary Batasar outside the court last week, said that 25-year-old restaurant worker Steven Chand personally wanted to behead Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

While bail hearings for three of the suspects - who were youths when the crimes were allegedly committed and cannot be named - begin this Friday, any evidence presented will be banned from publication.

The ban, imposed Monday by justice of the peace Keith Currie, drew the condemnation of some defence lawyers and members of the Muslim community.

"We call it a publication scam," Ahmad Shehab, the director of the Coalition of Muslim Organizations, said outside the courthouse.

"If you accuse people you might as well show things clear, transparent, due process, crystal clear evidence so the public could see."

Galati said he wants "the public to know exactly the allegations against my client."

He went as far as to say he wanted a live media feed of his client's bail hearing - an extraordinary request given that cameras and recording devices are routinely banned from courts under normal circumstances.

The 17 suspects face a variety of charges including knowingly participating in or contributing to terrorist activity, providing or receiving training for terrorist purposes and providing or making available property for a terrorist activity.

The maximum sentence for participating in terrorism, training and making property available is 10 years in prison.

Being beaten by guards repeatedly?

Hrmm..

I'd suspect that a doctor would be able to confirm that.

The other thing: They're getting treated no better or worse than any solitary confinement prisoner, AND, they aren't citizens or legal residents, and therefore have no rights.

Canada was one of the first places to outlaw physical reprisals against prisoners... if they're getting beat, they're doing something to deserve it like trying to strike a guard. No one involved wants to jeopardise these fellow's fair trials.

BTW, the Courts have held up the Security certificate programme before, and will keep on doing it because, like it or not, it doesn't expressly contradict any Canadian Law or International Treaty/Observance Canada has signed on to.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Send them back, we don't want them or their sorts here. Anyone who is immigrating here from another country should be told from day one that you only get one chance. If ya blow it... then we'll send you back never to return. < no pun intended... lol






I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats as good as they are going to feel all day. ~ Dean Martin

Graden: The problem is that it's not at all hard to get a passport illegally in most countries, and the fingerprinting/biometrics technology that was supposed to be put in place at all Canadian ports is still having trouble getting off the ground.

I'd rather see these guys in Prison here (under lock and key) than out and about where they can get in again without a lot of hassle.



Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Just to let you guys know i was at the Brampton court house on my own little unrelated charge and this one guy in a wheelchair after getting out of a brand new bmw wearing a Rolex and towel around his face not to be seen from the t.v. crews went in and was quickly scanned at the metal detector and move on (theres no bomb smelling e.q. there) that was one of the "terriost" they have 300 court dates moved for this pre trial) that means overload and i bet ya some of those were mistrials due to time delays my date was re-dated as well from that day in court room 107 to one week later in 104 heres the kicker i do autobody in the winter months (buzyier) and landscaping now and there is sooo many ways of getting fertilizer in large amounts and most of the guys i work with are from all over the world 4 that i know from Iraq so how well does this idea that we have tighten up the borders and feel safe these guys are well funded and know the way the system and use it scream racism and sit back and wait


http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4235/jim25ek.jpg

^^^ once more with feeling...

Punctuation Jimmaaaay! Punctuation!




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.