Quote:

which is like asking the KKK or Black Panther Party about diversity in america.

Hahaha! I love that analogy, it's so true too.

Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:

Sappy96 wrote:Its not the parts but who the majority of the profit of the cars goes to. GM and Ford cars keep the profits here. Every other company sends them to their parent company in their parent country. It doesn't matter so much whos plants are where.

either way you look at it, the gov't doesnt classify the mustang as a domestic. maybe it means the profits are goin elsewhere....?



as for the plants being where, i feel that should matter... location usually reflects on jobs for local economy. if a plant is in VA for example, most likely the majority of people will be VA citizens meaning more jobs for VA.

Even if a majority of parts are hech en mexico or where ever the profits still go to ford motor co. and its shareholders in the good ole USA.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

Sappy96 wrote:

Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:

Sappy96 wrote:Its not the parts but who the majority of the profit of the cars goes to. GM and Ford cars keep the profits here. Every other company sends them to their parent company in their parent country. It doesn't matter so much whos plants are where.

either way you look at it, the gov't doesnt classify the mustang as a domestic. maybe it means the profits are goin elsewhere....?



as for the plants being where, i feel that should matter... location usually reflects on jobs for local economy. if a plant is in VA for example, most likely the majority of people will be VA citizens meaning more jobs for VA.

Even if a majority of parts are hech en mexico or where ever the profits still go to ford motor co. and its shareholders in the good ole USA.

that may be true, but that still doesnt step around the fact that the car in question would be mexican....
which basically was my main point, calling a spade a spade...more or less that just makes ford the contractor for selling a car of another origin in their backyard, similar to the toyota cavalier.

Where was most of the development done? The engineers that came up w/ the schemetics for parts to go into production?



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

Sappy96 wrote:Where was most of the development done? The engineers that came up w/ the schemetics for parts to go into production?

That's only part of the equation, it's also the quality of the materials and what the QC/QA dept will pass.

Anyone besides me remember Ford using imported steel in the 70's, and because no one thought of the effects of salt air on steel, there were cars showing rust bubbles on the showroom floor?

But then again, Ford in the 70's had the Pinto too. There's an engineering marvel!

Water under the dam, but it speaks to corporations looking at a profit margin on a quarterly report versus corporations looking at getting repeat business from a good reputation. That's the key, do you want to squeeze every nickel of profit out of selling a car today, or do you want to have people buying your products for life?



.


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Sappy96 wrote:Where was most of the development done? The engineers that came up w/ the schemetics for parts to go into production?

the same can be said for the toyota camry (as example).... yet still more of the camry parts are USA MADE.....---remember, most people will classify THIS as the import. even Acura just opened up a new R&D plant in los angeles california.... many of the japanese labelled cars are getting production AND RESEARCH done here these days....

but yet they still hae an advantage cause the majority of their parts are also made here as well, by americans, in american cities....


like said above, rep is everything in cars....well maybe not EVERYTHING, but a good chunk of it. ford above all places, love to throw around their heritage dating back to the model T, SAAB uses the facts they made jets before cars, so their cars arent ordinary. many people claim dodge outside the hemi have less strong transmissions....

but like said, when you have some of the die hard ford enthusiasts who are so quick to tout "american made" etc.... doesnt matter where its assembeled, or designed...the core of the car is import.


like said also, i'm lookin at this from more a tounge in cheek aspect of people who have so much false pride in their cars origin or makeup, but they dont know much about em to begin with.


i mean look at it like this, if you are married one day, and have a baby with the wifey....then 5 years later after you;ve bragged to fam about your new born son..... then you get taken on Montel and told that YOUR SON is really a product of part your wife and your NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR..... you would def take a hit to pride and ego, right? your product you own more or less is no longer domestic in full....

Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:

i mean look at it like this, if you are married one day, and have a baby with the wifey....then 5 years later after you;ve bragged to fam about your new born son..... then you get taken on Montel and told that YOUR SON is really a product of part your wife and your NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR..... you would def take a hit to pride and ego, right? your product you own more or less is no longer domestic in full....

This is friggin' hilarious!


.


John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

I know 75% or more of my car is imported and I don't care but then again I like Australia. She has an american engine/ tranny.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

Sappy96 wrote:I know 75% or more of my car is imported and I don't care but then again I like Australia. She has an american engine/ tranny.

see thats the thing.... you dont care.... me...i dont care either... if it serves the purpose thats all i care about really, right?

but for many, the name and brand and model of the car is the most important thing

I own both a cavalier and a honda....and honestly they both have their good points and bad points...its all in what you enjoy to drive not what name is on it.

How far back does this apply for Mustang to be more and more imported parts?

Are most of those import cars that are now being assembled here, are the parts actually getting made here too?

The USA is a vast country, but it does has it limits. It's just not economical for the Big 3 to keep producing cars in the USA, the labor force won't support it. More and more, working at a factory is getting looked down upon, and getting a college education is a must, in the eyes of Americans.

I don't know, all my Dad ever talks about is how realible a 'yota is, but has never owned one. He wanted me to buy one, but why? I know I'll break something before the car breaks itself.

O noes!

Smokey wrote:The USA is a vast country, but it does has it limits. It's just not economical for the Big 3 to keep producing cars in the USA, the labor force won't support it.

There's a few reasons for using foreign labor, but "lack of Americans to do the work" isn't one of them. Unemployment is high right now, there are people who could do the work.

* The EPA is tough in this country, but other countries don't even have an environmental department. If you're talking about seats, padded dashes, carpet backing, etc. the cheapest adhesive may be on the USA's list of "prohibited". Also, waste disposal is much cheaper when you can drive a dumptruck to a landfil that doesn't ask questions.

* Some countries don't have an agency like OSHA, so safety rules are non-existant. That's why most sneakers are made overseas, the glue that holds them together is carcenogenic until it dries.

* Unions and healthcare costs are an extremely high burden for automakers.

* Just like some city governments will pay for a stadium for sports teams, some foreign governments will build a factory for US automakers. And then there's tax abatements, utility rate reductions, etc etc.

The US can support more factory jobs, it's just not always cost effective.

.





John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto

Three letters UAW.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

its all in peoples tast of cars and what they like. my bro loves imports and i hate them. hes owned 3 of them and they have broken down on the side of the highway so many times and i have to go get him so there not all the great like people think they are. also this toyota crap has to stop. they are nothing great at all. they have just recalled EVERY car they make for major things not little crap. for me i have owned 1 import didnt like it at all went back to GM and i love there cars and will never own anything else.

jbody03eco wrote:its all in peoples tast of cars and what they like. my bro loves imports and i hate them. hes owned 3 of them and they have broken down on the side of the highway so many times and i have to go get him so there not all the great like people think they are. also this toyota crap has to stop. they are nothing great at all. they have just recalled EVERY car they make for major things not little crap. for me i have owned 1 import didnt like it at all went back to GM and i love there cars and will never own anything else.

so you;ve only owned one, as in 1 import, and you HATE them?

comparing your brothers 3 broken down on the road..... why do you think cavaliers are easy to find in junk yards...

its true all cars have their problems, however some cars have proven to be FAR better than others. for example....

2200 engines, not really any problems.... 95-97 j bodies, many problems, electrical and mechanical.

2003-04 G35...lots of mechanical and electrical issues.... the 05+ virtually none reported at all...





i'll straight out say, my cavalier has been great. BUT you saying toyota isnt great, is kinda off the mark. toyota has proven their products over the years. someone has already said it.... here in 2006, car companies have their reps for either

1) their stuff has worked and been reliable

or

2) their stuff HAS NOT worked and HAS NOTbeen reliable.



so as i was first saying, you HATE imports cause you had 1 screw up on you, and your bro had 3 bad ones.

thats about the equivalent of 3 people who now own imports saying GM or "domestics" if you wanna call em that, SUCK cause their 95 neon and 95-97 cavaliers blew head gaskets...


in both cases, people are saying this or that SUCKS or they HATE this.... overall

simply cause of an isolated issue. if i am right, both GM ANNNND toyota make more models than the avg low budget economy cars offered. but we have people who support either side saying the other side sucks or they hate it cause they had bad luck with a mass produced low price car, which is what the majority buys... or a high priced car thats been devalued heavily through age, use, and abuse... like a supra from 93 with 150k+ and the people drove the hell out of it.....



its cool if all you wanna buy is GM.... but realistically that mindset is why there are so many egos in the "car world"

limited experience with other brands, lack of knowledge, or simply just arrogance based on false pride.



you said toyota just recalled EVERY car they make? and for MAJOR things?

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/07/toyota_recalls.html --most of these are the HYBRIDS and its a crankshaft position sensor. thats not really major... its a small sensor although important in prestige, its not like you are gonna drive and flip the car from a tire blow out and die.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060710/AUTO01/607100330/1148 --the air bag recalls are to DISABLE a switch, which will NOT give the option to turn the bag on or off... mainly they will be on full time. not really all that major. thats for the camry, prius, tundra, and tacoma.... nothing major at all. child restraints are built into the back seats for a reason.... where children are the safest but you cant count on people using common sense here.....

the main hard core issues in the us were the SUVS of lexus and toyota had a part of the console that could possibly interfere with the gas pedal....

other than that, the recalls were pretty much non life threatening or non MAJOR as you stated above.

didnt state much on GM's quality though?????

how about their pickup trucks..... http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/10/Autos/gm_recall/index.htm

Quote:

Cables that support the tailgate have corroded and snapped, causing 84 mostly-minor injuries.

sad part is.....

the recalled 4 MILLION of em back in 2004..... http://consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/gm_pickups.html

2 years and the prob still isnt fixed?

corvette roofs flying off http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2006/corvette.html
overload ratings for ALL GM trucks http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-22.shtml
brake lights staying on or not working http://www.wndu.com/news/productr/052006/productr_49596.php

and thats just 1 car, and ALL their trucks...

point being, most of the recalls are simple crap, not life threatening or put someone in danger really. sure in a bizarre occurance anything can be life-threatening, but anything can be, really. however we can all discern which is or isnt.


but the bottom line is, the origin of the cars... thats the topic of the post, and since you do own an alleged domestic, which many of em are built outside the US....and all the toyotas are now built here by americans, you and your brother more or less realistically had a problem with domestic built and created cars, while your gm which is more or less outsourced is more an import..... ironic.



i still find it odd, you claim to HATE imports....first line of your post and really on had experience with 1..... ein, uno, single, tasi.... 1

this pretty much ties into the analogy i used on asking the KKK or the black panther party for views on diversity.

people who have 1 or 2 bad experiences and then mark off and ENTIRE group as bad.......... thus, this is what palces like jbo, club si, racers den have sunken into in many cases. alot of hate from those with very little experience.

its nothing personal, no issues with ya really, its just the mindset people carry which pretty much causes all the stereotypes of "the tuner world" as its plastered all over the media in a negative light.

EVENT:
NHTSA mandated recalls are not voluntary, but the ones you're talking about with the pickups are voluntary. GM decided to pre-empt any problems, and this was done to satisfy compliance and liability. Also, 4 MILLION trucks? You're not going to get that done in a weekend. There are still old 80's Chev/GMC pickups that haven't had their gas tanks replaced and that was over 10 years ago that the mandated recall was enacted.

Toyota and Honda have had mandated recalls for their vehicle safety equipment, just like everyone else, but the difference: Safety equipment is always a mandated recall. Let's put it this way: Ferraris that click in at a quarter million dollars a piece have open recalls.

There was a recall on Maserati's with CF body pieces that would de-laminate from their frames, so a corvette losing part of its top doesn't really bother me all that much, and Maserati/Ferrari was mandated to recall by NHTSA.

As for the stickers: If you look at the overload link, it's from a LAW FIRM. They're soliciting actions from individuals, and will charge you probably 33-45% of any settlement, the language isn't anything approaching a NHTSA or State AG office release.

THIS LINK actually disturbs me... because it's not about a passive system or what not, it's about the STEERING MECHANISM, and foot-dragging in regards to the recall. This isn't at all kosher if you ask me because it means that someone is hiding something.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm <-- Mandated and voluntary recall checks Better to get the info from the source.

As for the Import/Domestic thing: Who cares? If you have brand loyalty, then good for you... All car manufacturers have a few skeletons in the closet that they want to look past and focus on their "reputation." Reputation is only as good as your last out-of-court settlement.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.

Honda recalls 35,000 Fits Brake Lamps May Not Work

Toyota Recalls 418,570 Echos, Priuses over Faulty Engines

Toyota recalls 206,388 Corolla faulty switch that can manually control the operation of the front seat airbag.

ONE MILLION Toyotas Recalled, including Corolla & Prius for loss of Steering Control

Honda to recall 561,594 Odysseys, CR-Vs, etc. for Burning/Melting Ignition, Injuries

Toyota Motor Corp. will spend millions to deactivate front-seat passenger air bag cut-off switches in nearly 160,000 Tundra pickups to avoid having to install a costlier child safety seat anchoring system.

Toyota recalls 367,600 Highlanders and Lexus RXs

Toyota recalls 210,000 Land Cruiser SUVs worldwide for axle problem

Toyota Recalling 2007 Camry for Transmission Problem

VW recalls 362,000 cars, jetta sedan from 1999-2002 model years, Jetta III from 1999-2000 model years and the New Beetle from 1998-2002 model years

Nissan faces costly Altima, Sentra recall for Engine Fires

for imports my bros had
91 civic SI traded it in for my sunfire
96 golf tranny blew 78K junk yard
03 maxima rusting out on the back passanger side fender well -sold
06 impreza just broke down the other night for something with the fuel lines. -current

when i had my sunfire 2000 SE 2200 auto bought it with 59K on it
100K i did spark plugs and wires tranny flush
74K fuel filter pluged up (stock one)
68K front tires.

new cars coblat and malibu maxx
cobalts got 12K nothing
malibus got 7k nothing

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:EVENT:
NHTSA mandated recalls are not voluntary, but the ones you're talking about with the pickups are voluntary. GM decided to pre-empt any problems, and this was done to satisfy compliance and liability. Also, 4 MILLION trucks? You're not going to get that done in a weekend. There are still old 80's Chev/GMC pickups that haven't had their gas tanks replaced and that was over 10 years ago that the mandated recall was enacted.

the point about the trucks are, it was 4 million back in the day, and sure it wont take overnight, however in the past 2 years, they kept reproducing a part or mechanism that was faulty...

kinda like making donuts with small rat turds in em, not too harmful, but will effect some. if you do this in 2004, and know about it, but still produce donuts with rat turds in em come 2006, shows quality control never really changed. that problem was known back in 02 03 when i was looking at getting a pickup. 2 years down the road in 04 and still producing the same faulty part.

kinda like the canadian cavaliers having the gas guage recall, where people were running outta gas on the highway, one person was either killed or seriously injured before anything was done. it was all over the general forum.


good call on the "repuation" ordeal, but rep is made over time. GM and Ford are considered more a front runner than lincoln or dodge.... now back in the day, when dodge brought the k car to the table, their stock was up a bit...

jbody03eco wrote:Honda recalls 35,000 Fits Brake Lamps May Not Work

Toyota Recalls 418,570 Echos, Priuses over Faulty Engines

Toyota recalls 206,388 Corolla faulty switch that can manually control the operation of the front seat airbag.

ONE MILLION Toyotas Recalled, including Corolla & Prius for loss of Steering Control

brake lamps... already pointed that out.... similar to cobalt headlight recall # 04V560000 http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport/vehicle_nmb/15838/section/recalls/type/new/year/2005/make/Chevrolet/model/Cobalt

already pointed out which cars have the air bag switch, not sure if you read it, but part of it IS IN BOLD, so you should have missed it. the air bags WORK... problem is, the recall is to DISABLE the switch, heres a quote from my last post:

MYSELF wrote:
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060710/AUTO01/607100330/1148 --the air bag recalls are to DISABLE a switch, which will NOT give the option to turn the bag on or off... mainly they will be on full time. not really all that major. thats for the camry, prius, tundra, and tacoma.... nothing major at all. child restraints are built into the back seats for a reason.... where children are the safest but you cant count on people using common sense here.....

the melting ignition, SAME thing ALL cavaliers have up to 2002, they simply install a relay. even mine has that recall....95-2002 cavaliers...

the engine problems you listed all dealt with the HYBRIDS crank position sensor.....which of course i ALSO pointed that out in my last post as well. basically you walked right behind me and rehashed everything i just pointed out and gave links to....

only thing is, you didnt bother to post up all the domestic recalls..... which tends to show your bias.

Quote:

for imports my bros had
91 civic SI traded it in for my sunfire
96 golf tranny blew 78K junk yard
03 maxima rusting out on the back passanger side fender well -sold
06 impreza just broke down the other night for something with the fuel lines. -current

the only REAL issue out of that group would be the fuel lines on the imprezza....
the civic obviously worked, just old.
the golf tranny blowing, one would have to question whoever drove it, could they really drive it, did they do the maintainence, and if it was an auto how hot did the tranny fluid get. 78K on a transmission is great, you didnt post it had problems before hand. which you prob will, ironically. but there are plenty on this forum who abuse transmission and they go out around 50-70k....no surprise there.

Quote:

when i had my sunfire 2000 SE 2200 auto bought it with 59K on it
100K i did spark plugs and wires tranny flush
74K fuel filter pluged up (stock one)
68K front tires.

thats normal, however you let still go for quite a while over spec. no biggie.

Quote:

new cars coblat and malibu maxx
cobalts got 12K nothing
malibus got 7k nothing

already pointed out the cobalt recall above.

malibu

from 04 and some 05's - seatbelts, BRAKES: http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-recalls/67-int/2004/chevrolet/malibu/maxx-lt/index.html



you listed a few from toyota/lexus.... however above you said

jbodyeco03 wrote:they have just recalled EVERY car they make for major things not little crap.

let me know, please, wheres the other cars at.... they make more than you listed....

also in comparison, dont shy away from tossing up some Lincoln, Dodge, GMC, Hummer (of all brands), and pontiac stats as well....

a crank sensor is little crap. tail lights are on the same as headlights same as the domestics pointed out, cobalts at that....

the brakes on malibus going out is pretty much the same as loss of steering. no control.



still wanna know whats your view on toyo and lex being made here by americans.... so does that mean import labeled, but Domestic built and manufactured cars prove the quality of american work?


dont shy away and post up stuff i;ve already posted, discuss

GAM (The Kilted One) wrote:EVENT:
NHTSA mandated recalls are not voluntary, but the ones you're talking about with the pickups are voluntary. GM decided to pre-empt any problems, and this was done to satisfy compliance and liability. Also, 4 MILLION trucks? You're not going to get that done in a weekend. There are still old 80's Chev/GMC pickups that haven't had their gas tanks replaced and that was over 10 years ago that the mandated recall was enacted.

the point about the trucks are, it was 4 million back in the day, and sure it wont take overnight, however in the past 2 years, they kept reproducing a part or mechanism that was faulty...

kinda like making donuts with small rat turds in em, not too harmful, but will effect some. if you do this in 2004, and know about it, but still produce donuts with rat turds in em come 2006, shows quality control never really changed. that problem was known back in 02 03 when i was looking at getting a pickup. 2 years down the road in 04 and still producing the same faulty part.

kinda like the canadian cavaliers having the gas guage recall, where people were running outta gas on the highway, one person was either killed or seriously injured before anything was done. it was all over the general forum.


good call on the "repuation" ordeal, but rep is made over time. GM and Ford are considered more a front runner than lincoln or dodge.... now back in the day, when dodge brought the k car to the table, their stock was up a bit...

jbody03eco wrote:Honda recalls 35,000 Fits Brake Lamps May Not Work

Toyota Recalls 418,570 Echos, Priuses over Faulty Engines

Toyota recalls 206,388 Corolla faulty switch that can manually control the operation of the front seat airbag.

ONE MILLION Toyotas Recalled, including Corolla & Prius for loss of Steering Control

brake lamps... already pointed that out.... similar to cobalt headlight recall # 04V560000 http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport/vehicle_nmb/15838/section/recalls/type/new/year/2005/make/Chevrolet/model/Cobalt

already pointed out which cars have the air bag switch, not sure if you read it, but part of it IS IN BOLD, so you should have missed it. the air bags WORK... problem is, the recall is to DISABLE the switch, heres a quote from my last post:

MYSELF wrote:
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060710/AUTO01/607100330/1148 --the air bag recalls are to DISABLE a switch, which will NOT give the option to turn the bag on or off... mainly they will be on full time. not really all that major. thats for the camry, prius, tundra, and tacoma.... nothing major at all. child restraints are built into the back seats for a reason.... where children are the safest but you cant count on people using common sense here.....

the melting ignition, SAME thing ALL cavaliers have up to 2002, they simply install a relay. even mine has that recall....95-2002 cavaliers...

the engine problems you listed all dealt with the HYBRIDS crank position sensor.....which of course i ALSO pointed that out in my last post as well. basically you walked right behind me and rehashed everything i just pointed out and gave links to....

only thing is, you didnt bother to post up all the domestic recalls..... which tends to show your bias.

Quote:

for imports my bros had
91 civic SI traded it in for my sunfire
96 golf tranny blew 78K junk yard
03 maxima rusting out on the back passanger side fender well -sold
06 impreza just broke down the other night for something with the fuel lines. -current

the only REAL issue out of that group would be the fuel lines on the imprezza....
the civic obviously worked, just old.
the golf tranny blowing, one would have to question whoever drove it, could they really drive it, did they do the maintainence, and if it was an auto how hot did the tranny fluid get. 78K on a transmission is great, you didnt post it had problems before hand. which you prob will, ironically. but there are plenty on this forum who abuse transmission and they go out around 50-70k....no surprise there.

Quote:

when i had my sunfire 2000 SE 2200 auto bought it with 59K on it
100K i did spark plugs and wires tranny flush
74K fuel filter pluged up (stock one)
68K front tires.

thats normal, however you let still go for quite a while over spec. no biggie.

Quote:

new cars coblat and malibu maxx
cobalts got 12K nothing
malibus got 7k nothing

already pointed out the cobalt recall above.

malibu

from 04 and some 05's - seatbelts, BRAKES: http://www.internetautoguide.com/auto-recalls/67-int/2004/chevrolet/malibu/maxx-lt/index.html



you listed a few from toyota/lexus.... however above you said

jbodyeco03 wrote:they have just recalled EVERY car they make for major things not little crap.

let me know, please, wheres the other cars at.... they make more than you listed.... IS250, IS350, etc etc etc.... not being a jerk, but right now, i havent heard that ALL/EVERY car was recalled.

also in comparison, dont shy away from tossing up some Lincoln, Dodge, GMC, Hummer (of all brands), and pontiac stats as well....

a crank sensor is little crap. tail lights are on the same as headlights same as the domestics pointed out, cobalts at that....

the brakes on malibus going out is pretty much the same as loss of steering. no control.



still wanna know whats your view on toyo and lex being made here by americans.... so does that mean import labeled, but Domestic built and manufactured cars prove the quality of american work?


dont shy away and post up stuff i;ve already posted, discuss

im not makeing fun of imports im just saying there not all perfect like everyone is out to think they are. yes there is some good cars and yes there is some bad cars. im just saying i have had better luck with american made cars and so i plain on staying with them. my bros golf he bought of my teacher and it was a 5 speed. proplems befor the tranny blew was the normal VW things side trim falling off lights on the bumper fell out and had a rust whole in the floor under the drivers seat.

Everyone sucks, hows about that. They all have humans involved in the process so they none can be perfect.



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

jbody03eco wrote:im not makeing fun of imports im just saying there not all perfect like everyone is out to think they are. yes there is some good cars and yes there is some bad cars. im just saying i have had better luck with american made cars and so i plain on staying with them. my bros golf he bought of my teacher and it was a 5 speed. proplems befor the tranny blew was the normal VW things side trim falling off lights on the bumper fell out and had a rust whole in the floor under the drivers seat.

no one, atleast not i, said you were making fun of em...

however, you pretty much DID group imports all together by saying "i hate imports" and you have only had personal experience with a single 1 (ONE) car that was labelled traditionally an import.


saying you have had better luck, not a damn thing wrong with that. for many thats true. same goes for import drivers...some simply have had more longevity with their respective brands.

but to say, i hate a whole group of something, based off the personal experience of 1or a VERY minute few................. maybe some may see where i am going with this and why i referenced "hate groups" (KKK/ Black Panther party) at the top of the page and made the comparison.

no one, atleast not i have ever said, any car is perfect.... even top end cars upwards and beyond 1million dollars, are not perfect. higher quality control due to less being made, true.... but its still raw materials manufactured by humans and designed by humans.



as far as side trim, bumper lights falling out, thats super ficial as hell. thats like complaining about the millions of cavalier stock exhausts sagging down, or side trim door bumper gaurds comming off many cars..... nothing tape or glue wise lasts forever. hence 3M is sold at many stores and an easy fix.

Quote:

as far as side trim, bumper lights falling out, thats super ficial as hell

no its not its true. every 93-99 golf-jetts the litle lights on the bumper feel off and the door trim falles off. go out and look for 1 you will see a light missing or door trim falling off.

cavaliers muffler hanging. yup that happes alot to, my sunfire had a full 2.25 inch pipeing from the header back all custom. brackets added to the muffler and after my car there the muffler goes over the rear axle. never had a proplem.

then i shouldint have said "i hate imports" i should have said i hate the imports kids additudes. that better?

GTO FTW american engine
australian manufactured



05 M6 YJ GTO 1 of 447

jbody03eco wrote:

Quote:

as far as side trim, bumper lights falling out, thats super ficial as hell

no its not its true. every 93-99 golf-jetts the litle lights on the bumper feel off and the door trim falles off. go out and look for 1 you will see a light missing or door trim falling off.

cavaliers muffler hanging. yup that happes alot to, my sunfire had a full 2.25 inch pipeing from the header back all custom. brackets added to the muffler and after my car there the muffler goes over the rear axle. never had a proplem.

then i shouldint have said "i hate imports" i should have said i hate the imports kids additudes. that better?

That IS true..... it IS superficial.

superficial - 1 a (1) : of, relating to, or located near a surface (2) : lying on, not penetrating below, or affecting only the surface <superficial wounds> b British, of a unit of measure : SQUARE <superficial foot>
2 a : concerned only with the obvious or apparent : SHALLOW b : seen on the surface : EXTERNAL c : presenting only an appearance without substance or significance

Quote:

no its not its true. every 93-99 golf-jetts the litle lights on the bumper feel off and the door trim falles off. go out and look for 1 you will see a light missing or door trim falling off.

my ex roomate ross drove a late 90's jetta (dont know the exact year), borrowed from parents when his old bwm conked out finally after 240K. never had the problem you state... he now has a 2001 jetta thats his own after he graduated, parents still have theirs.... problem isnt there either.

you seem to be under the notion that since it happened where you are, it happens to ALL jettas around the world, which pretty much reinforces the point that you take a few examples and then seem to claim every jetta has this....



door trim falling off is not really a safety issue, its only there for superficial reasons. sure you might not win a car show if its half falling of....however its not a major issue... its an APPEARANCE issue. most people if that occured, they would usually have the motivation to reapply the trim piece by using double sided tape or otherwise and be done with it. you get the supplies from any home depot or any auto parts store. even if there are clips holding it on....pep boys, advance, auto zone....

complaining about trim falling off, is like complaining about losing a button off ones shirt... its something even the dullest should be capable of taking care of on their own in a few minutes..

the light however, can be more significant as far as turn signals go, but as long as the corner lights still work, its not that huge of a deal. simply get a new light, or a replacement universal housing from a store and be done with it. anyone who cant replace their own bumper light sits on the same level as women and some men who cant check their own oil.



the cavalier exhaust ordeal is nothing more than a stretched rubber hanger in the majority of the cases....lucky for us, or the stock peoples.... this as well is superficial. obviously if you upgraded the exhaust most parts will be replaced during the process, so really not many (prob a small few) actually have the problem with aftermarket exhaust.

Quote:

then i shouldint have said "i hate imports" i should have said i hate the imports kids additudes. that better?

better???? not sure to be honest.... changing words doesnt really do much, only because the way you wrote on here AGAINST imports, you pretty much showed yourself to be the same as the "import kids attitudes" except you drive a "badged domestic". really, you acted EXACTLY the same as who you claim to hate, you just prefer another brand. Same Attitude Different Brand



Sappy96, great car all around though, from what i;ve seen. just wild its teamed with Holden, i think... so much power, such an avg sized sedan.