can't leave out the Toyota 20R, 22R and 22RE. with exception of the weak plastic timing chain shims, those were rock solid motors.
Desert Tuners
“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”
Quote:
can't leave out the Toyota 20R, 22R and 22RE. with exception of the weak plastic timing chain shims, those were rock solid motors.
22rte (re-t it was listed both ways under the hood) is a good engine too....if the turbo would last
Mitsubishi 4G63 - incliding the Mivec version
Mazda 20B
Chevy small block
GM L67, LN2, Ecotecs...
Honda B series
I CAN'T CHOOSE!!!!!
Quote:
Mazda 20B
Chevy small block
GM L67
I don't think rotaries or V8s count as 4 cylinder engines
Hehe...
A lot of good choices listed about. Honda and Mitsu and Ecotec are definitely tops. I still have a fondness for the Lima because of how it can be had in RWD and AWD configuration, in Turbo and N/A, in SOHC and DOHC and they can be fitted in everything from a Mustang to a European Ford Escort to a Sand Rail dune buggy.
Just stay away from the crappy dual spark plug versions and you're gold.
4G63 comes in a T or not version and has been mated to FWD, RWD and AWD drivetrains
I believe the RWD was only aftermarket projects though.
PAX
Jeremy Knox wrote:I'm curious to see what everyone says on this subject. My own opinion is that the Ford 2.3 SOHC "Lima" L4 is, if not the best, definitely one of the best 4 bangers out there. Very modifiable, cheap and plentiful and can fit in anything. Also it's tough as nails and will run 300,000+ miles.
I like this subject...
I do have one question though-what cars did it come in?
II'm quite curious now...
I would have to agree with the ecotec and the saturn 1.9 too...
Dave Z wrote:Jeremy Knox wrote:I'm curious to see what everyone says on this subject. My own opinion is that the Ford 2.3 SOHC "Lima" L4 is, if not the best, definitely one of the best 4 bangers out there. Very modifiable, cheap and plentiful and can fit in anything. Also it's tough as nails and will run 300,000+ miles.
I like this subject...
I do have one question though-what cars did it come in?
II'm quite curious now...
I would have to agree with the ecotec and the saturn 1.9 too...
It was the 4 cylinder used in the Mustang from '74-93 (in turbo form for SVO's and GT Turbos), Merkur XR4TI's (Turbo version), Pintos, Mavericks, T-Birds (Turbo Coupes or N/A 4 banger T-Birds).
There may be more, those are the ones I know of.
funniest part of this thread was when a DSM motor was mentioned for reliability LMFAO!!!
it was the only cars that i had to replace an engine on.
my vote goes to the 3sgte, or 5sfe, D16yz, Sr20, Rb20
ive replaced DSM motors with less then 40k on them, yet i continue to swap 200k mile toyota motors
for ones with turbos, but the 200k mile one is perfect!
but seriosuly DSM reliable LMFAOROTF
Leave them in stock form, or teat them properly and they are quite reliable.
They have won Dakar 6 years in a row.. That says something about toughness right there.
PAX
yea its tough for ONE race one year, doesnt say much about reliability over a ..lets say five year period.
My 10 year old 4G63T (a 7 bolt even) is running stroing to this day without issue. Just maintanence, that's all.
That is a DSM engine, but of course, Mitsu makes other engines as well. The currently offer the best waranty on the planet, so they must be feeling pretty good about their product.
PAX
SpcmnSpff302 (Teh Gambler) wrote:Dave Z wrote:Jeremy Knox wrote:I'm curious to see what everyone says on this subject. My own opinion is that the Ford 2.3 SOHC "Lima" L4 is, if not the best, definitely one of the best 4 bangers out there. Very modifiable, cheap and plentiful and can fit in anything. Also it's tough as nails and will run 300,000+ miles.
I like this subject...
I do have one question though-what cars did it come in?
II'm quite curious now...
I would have to agree with the ecotec and the saturn 1.9 too...
It was the 4 cylinder used in the Mustang from '74-93 (in turbo form for SVO's and GT Turbos), Merkur XR4TI's (Turbo version), Pintos, Mavericks, T-Birds (Turbo Coupes or N/A 4 banger T-Birds).
There may be more, those are the ones I know of.
Not in Mavericks, they had 6 cylinders and V8's only. However the rest is dead on. Here's some other models it could be had in:
Turbo form:
*1984-1989 Merkur XR4Ti
1979-1984 Ford Mustang GT Turbo
*1984-1986 Ford Mustang SVO
1984-1986 Mercury Cougar XR7 Turbo
1984-1988 Ford T-Bird Turbocoupe (*87-88)
Non-Turbo:
1971-1980 Ford Pinto
1975-1980 Mercury Bobcat
1974-1993 Ford Mustang
1978-1983 Ford Fairmont
1978-1983 Mercury Zephyr
1972-1986 Mercury Capri
1980-1988 Ford Thunderbird
1980-1988 Mercury Cougar
1981-1982 Ford Granada
1983-1986 Ford LTD
1983-1986 Mercury Marquis
1982-1999 Ford Ranger
1984-1990 Ford Bronco II
1982-1988 Ford Sierra (European model only)
However the differences between the Turbo and non-turbo are tiny. Forged pistons, an oil return line hole in the side of the block and a different head design are pretty much everything mechanically different between the two blocks.
The oil line hole and forged pistons are easy as heck to install and the different head design isn't all that essential for power. You might lose a few HP, but have it ported or install a cam from late model Ranger and you'll gain all the lost power.
Things to stay away from: 1991-1999 Dual Sparkplug heads. Truly, they're crap. No flow and no aftermarket support. The only reason to buy one of these things is that the engine came in 2.5 liter form, so if you swap heads you'll have 0.2 liters more of grunt and torque. It's worth the effort, netting an easy 20-30hp.
The cheapest and best way to go Turbo is to get a 1987-1990 Mustang with a manual transmission (In a pinch, a Ranger will do). The 2.3 in those cars has all the neater intake parts that are identical to early Turbos and the wiring is 90% the same as on the Turbo cars. All you need to do, other than install the Turbo, is a Computer swap and some fiddling around with 3 or 4 wires. Nothing major. Parts that you need are a 1984-89 era Turbo engine (or forged pistons for your Non-turbo block. It comes to the same thing), exhaust manifold (from 1986-up Turbo car), the Variable Air Meter, the Garrett T-3 Turbo (from 1984-86 cars), the computer from a 1987-88 T-bird. Also, I'd add a good Ford Racing clutch while I was at it. Stay away from automatic Mustangs, those transmissions are crap and will never survive the power of a Turbo engine.
Everything else is up to you. A good intercooler to add is the one from a Volvo 760 Turbo. They're cheap and big and fit in the car like it was a stock item. Aftermarket (or Mustang 5.0) rims to replace the dinky 14" would be nice too. As would better brakes since even the 5.0 braking system was a hog, so you can only imagine the 4 cylinder Mustangs. The rear axle should be changed as well since it's not limited slip and kind of wussy, but it'll hold under the Turbo's power. You just won't have any traction. You know... just thought of something. This'd make a great drift car.
Dammit! Now I wanna build another one!
FReQ Z wrote:can't leave out the Toyota 20R, 22R and 22RE. with exception of the weak plastic timing chain shims, those were rock solid motors.
Definitely as far as reliablility. My 82 Celica had over 300,000 mile when I got rid of it. The 3TC and 2TC motors that came in the old Corollas where indestructible as well.
Also agree with the Type 1 VW engines. Had a 1776cc bug with dual carbs, headers/stinger, and unknown cam grind. Thing was wicked. Gawd awful loud, but wicked.
I would have to say that they are all pretty good in their own way. The Mitsubishi engines must have been designed from the people that were turned down at the other Jap car companies as they leave a little to be desired. I'd prefer to work on the GM 2.5 or 3.0 4 cylinder. They are fairly easy to work with.
Chris Crossont
A.H.M. Performance
Baltimore, MD
http://www.ahmperformance.com
how about the 1.9L in the escort EXPs. Drove it like it was stolen for a year
Hahahaha: I think the reason the mistubishi is offering that kind of warranty is because they need something to spur on buying the cars... seriously, they're low on the ranks right now, and they need something so I think they'd rather eat the cost of extended warranty work rather than lose their shirts putting out a product that isn't selling well. It means their margins are lower, but if they have a lower margin rather than a negative, I think they're working out just fine.
Either way, figure the average Paris-Dakar vehicle has several million dollars behind that campaign, you're not going to get the same engine in your average Talon or Lancer. As I remember, the engines used in P-D aren't even available to the public in any form.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
LNF>all
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
those k20s seems to be deadly. responds crazy to mods. my friends k20z1 wtih CAI/DCRH/reflash gave em really nice gains.
the bug engine, esp. in the super beetle, was tough. I don't know if it, even in modded form in a light bug body, could hang with 60s musclecars. Maybe if the Vdub was tuned for handling it would take it but in a straight line i don't know.
the best I-4s I know:
2.2 liter Chrysler (from the '78 Omni onward)
2.5 liter GM in the A-Bodies (Ciera, Celebrity, 6000, Century)
D- and B- series Hondas
2.3 liter Lima (as mentioned) from Ford
1.9 liter Saturn
Maybe the 2200? in terms of reliability, not power.
1.8 liter Mitsu
2.5 liter I-4 in the Porsche 944 and 944 turbo
1.8 liter I-4 in Toyota Corollas
2.2 liter I-4 in Toyota Camries...I don't know exact engine designations
I am actually Extremely supprised no one has mentioned the 89-92 F2T motoer found in the ford probe and Mazda Mx6. A very reliable motor that can last at least 300,000 miles, Making like 145 WHP and somewhere around 175 FT LBS of tourque with one of the worst sized turbos ever put on to a car. Mine spools at around 1500 going up a slight incline. So basically at full boost it drops off at after 3000 RPM's. Many people have them easily in the 16 PSI or higher range without any modifications the the motor. Build up the motor and you have a 20 psi tourque monster.
They were even built to replace the Ford Mustang. Just never caught on because people didnt think they could eventually be as strong as a v8.
With a different name and a better transmission I think you would see a whole lot of them around, probably whipping ass on a lot of cars.
Rollinredcavi wrote:I am actually Extremely supprised no one has mentioned the 89-92 F2T motoer found in the ford probe and Mazda Mx6. A very reliable motor that can last at least 300,000 miles, Making like 145 WHP and somewhere around 175 FT LBS of tourque with one of the worst sized turbos ever put on to a car. Mine spools at around 1500 going up a slight incline. So basically at full boost it drops off at after 3000 RPM's. Many people have them easily in the 16 PSI or higher range without any modifications the the motor. Build up the motor and you have a 20 psi tourque monster.
They were even built to replace the Ford Mustang. Just never caught on because people didnt think they could eventually be as strong as a v8.
With a different name and a better transmission I think you would see a whole lot of them around, probably whipping ass on a lot of cars.
Naw, people didn't like the Probe because it was front wheel drive and Japanese. FWD's just not the same driving sensation at all; and it had the misfortune of coming out during a time when every car was going FWD and the car market was being invaded by Japanese cars so people were a little sensitive. Car guys, even those who hated the Mustang, were scared to lose every "old school" musclecar in existence. By 1989 we'd lost the RWD G-Bodies like the Grand National, Monte-Carlo, Cutlass, Grand-Prix. We'd lost every RWD Chrysler 2 door, every compact car, the Malibu, the LeMans, all the Mid-size Ford's apart from the T-Bird and Cougar. I guess that the idea of losing the all-American Mustang was too much to take. Also, Ford was very nervous about repeating the Mustang II mistake of 1974 where they'd come out with a radically different Mustang that was liked by a lot of non-Mustang people but then universally despised by car people. Mustang II sold like crazy the first year then the sales just dropped off the face of the earth when the people who initially supported bought the better Japanese cars like the Celica and the RX3. No way Ford was gonna risk that kind of failure twice. Their wariness kind of paid off really. They were gonna kill off the Mustang in 1987, 1994 and 1999 and each time they released the car they'd wanted to replace it with under a different name it sold like crap while the Mustang always had around 100,000 a year sales. I guess people just aren't ready for a 2+2 FWD sports car.
All good choices
1.ecotec (total build capability... 1400hp potential)
2.ford 2.3l (parts avalibility... they are anywhere and everywhere)
3.gm 2.2 ohv (longevity... 300,000 mi +)
4.Honda b (aftermarket parts... you cant look in a summit catalog and not find a page completly devoted)
5.mitsus dohc (strength... one of the few engines still made with a cast iron block)
6.gm 2.4l quad4 (just a good motor worth mentioning... except the head gasket problem)
7.gm 2.5l iron duke (my 85 makes 90hp at 4500rpm... kinda sux for stock but very upgradable)
8.ford ztec (my friends focus is kinda fast for stock but also has a lot of aftermarket support)
9.Honda f20 (can't not mention the f motor from the s2000)
10.lotus 2.2l (from 1977ish esprit... this 4 banger competed against the best for the super car title the car had... also this is the first 4 cyl car to get the super car title)
Ducati Desmosedici V4... 989cc's, 200+ horsepower, no valvesprings.
i agree 2.3 l ford i have had a few tempo "field cars" and they would run until the heated to the point where they would quit.i would let em cool down for like 10 min and away she goes again.i also had a 89 mustang with a 2.3 turbo in it and that lil bugger would run a 5.0
it was a fun lil car and really tough engine.sucked down the fuel though.ahhh so many memories before it got my z of blowing the doors of cavys and sunfires and laughing my a$$ of
good times
