To: Mr. Sheep - Page 2 - Politics and War Forum
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[quote=Keeper of the Light™]As for me, i don't need to do anything to "protect what i believe is right". Everyone else, through their apathy or corruption is doing it for me. After all, the politicians are perverting and circumventing the constitution for their own gains, and the people are led to believe that this is a good thing (the perversion and circumvention). After all, they are trading their liberty and freedom for the illusion of security.
Me, on the other hand, believing in entropy and the fact that all systems curmble and new ones take their place, as I said, I don't need to do anything. Either people will see that the system wneeds a total revamp, and it will meet my ends, or the syetem will collapse, and it will meet my ends. All i do i use the system against itself--to try and vote the @!#$s out, or barring that, get something in that will throw the proveribal monkey wrench into the system.
As for being "enlightened", i never claim to be. My way is not your way. You see fit to defend and make a stand for something you believe in--i'm not attacking that. I have my perspetive on things, as do you. And unlike pundits, i'm not trying to push an agenda to give some crusty old dude whom my tongue is firmly embedded in their cleft a vote. I just offer my perspective on things.
Now, to clear something up: America, in concept is a good idea--it's too bad that, IMHO, we let the politicians ruin it, but i guess that's thwe way it was supposed to go. But looking at some of the B.S. to have came out of Washington recently (Patriot Act, the B.S. about Gay Marriage, and other initiatives that are simply trying to reduce the liberties of americans), i see no reason to stand up and defend that, and maybe I am too cynical, but i do not think that things will get better. So what better way then to add to the entropy?
It may not be a good idea in your eyes, but it is in mine.
All great excuses for a lack of initiative, caring, strong will, volunteerism, duty, unselfishness, and moral standing. I just had to sum it up, you said it all for me.
2004 WR Blue/silver STi
Cobb Stage II
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The only two things of those I will debate on is lack of initiative and strong will.
I have never ever denied that I don't care about many things, i never volunteer for things that don't concern me, my duty is to myself and anything i deem important enough, i am very self-centeredm, and I think morality is a farce.
And i have an initiative to hold onto the above despite it being an unpopular waty of thingking, and have the strong will to hold onto that way of thinking despite most people thinking it's wrong...
So, in other words...you say all that above like it's a bad thing.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I see a small flaw with that wonderful one sided propaganda. It's that everyone, I repeat... EVERYONE thinks they're the sheepdog, nobody ever believes they're a wolf. They feel that everyone who resists them is the wolf and everyone who passively accepts what they want is the sheep.
It is, in laymen terms, a rationalization of behavior and the reason FOR the behavior.
It's amazing, just amazing, how little people THINK about anything they say. I was talking to some friends and they were going on and on and ON about how the United States did this and it did that and how they HATED AMERICA and blah-blah-blah. So after some verbal arm twisting I got them to admit that what they "hate" is that American companies come to this country and lay stake on everything and that American politicians treat any non-US country as if they're a bunch of morons who don't know how to do anything. So I kindly pointed out that the people they hate are the same people AMERICAN CITIZENS aren't too fond of either: Politicians and Business men. Didn't occur to them that their views were essentially identical to most Americans. They were too busy bitching.
Which brings us to what the problem with the whole word is: Ideology. Not the specifics of it. I don't care what people believe in. Just ideology in itself. The idea that one single unique specific way of thinking holds what's right and good and godly and moral in the world and that whoever could possibly oppose it must be wrong and evil and demonic and corrupt. Grown men and women, ADULTS FOR CHRISSAKES, treating war like it's a baseball game they're rooting for their team. Making sweeping, uninformed generalizations based on hearsay and being completely swallowed up with the songs and chants and statistics and rhetoric of "their" side.
Well lemme tell you, politics and war are just like baseball. The "teams" need the fans and they'll do anything to get them no matter how crass or stupid or undignified. It's like when people call George Bush a conservative or Hilary Clinton a liberal. They're neither. They are politicians.
It's just like this whole BS "Pro-Soldier" thing that both sides are using to pretend they're patriots. Being against the war doesn't mean you're against soldiers and being for the war doesn't mean you're for soldiers. You can ask any 18 year old crippled veteran about much "love" he got after the photo op medal giving ceremonies. Wanna show your for soldiers? Stop kissing their ass and start giving their widows money or babysitting their kids when they're off to war so their wives can work and make some extra money. Mow their lawns and fix their cars for free. When you see a soldier's wife at the video store, pay for her movies. Don't say a word, don't ask for thanks. Just do it and move on.
Oh, and don't forget another thing, as long as we're using farmyard analogy. Neither the sheepdog nor the sheep herder "loves" the sheep. They're just cattle. Something to be used.
Still, I loved how he wrote it. Very ballsy poetic BS. Took guts to write something like that. I admire him.
^^^wolves are still social, i'd see myself more as a cougar. Unfortunately that means when i'm sleeping some of the shepherd's children will come and poke me in the eye with a stick, causing me to get pissed off and maul them, upon which then the shepherd and his friends in the neborhood association will try top hunt me down even though their child just won a darwin award.
But i do concede that point about the teams and the fans. I find it hauntingly accurate.
Keep in mind, though, America, like any other place, is an abstract--it's lines drawn on the map that is the boundary set by a political idea. Humans gone=no more america, even though the land that it once incompassed will still be there.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Jeremy Knox wrote:I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but I see a small flaw with that wonderful one sided propaganda. It's that everyone, I repeat... EVERYONE thinks they're the sheepdog, nobody ever believes they're a wolf. They feel that everyone who resists them is the wolf and everyone who passively accepts what they want is the sheep.
me on page 1 wrote:If I had to choose between the three, I'd be leaning toward sheepdog with some wolf tendencies
Sheepdog, because I'd get involved if I saw someone getting beaten up who couldn't protect themself.
Wolf, because I'd rather hunt sheep than beg the shepherd for table scraps. I don't view wolf as a bad thing, it's hunting to survive.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
Bend it and twist it all you want. It was just part of a clever story that I thought you would all enjoy.
Makes me not hate the sheep so much.
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^^^perhaps, but the point made of:
Quote:
Neither the sheepdog nor the sheep herder "loves" the sheep. They're just cattle. Something to be used.
Fits. Well, almost. If this was Montana then the Shepherd would indeed love the sheep, but we're talking the velcro glove-type of love.
(and no, i don't believe that all Montanans have sexually fulfilling relationships with barnyard animals).
Honestly, i don't care where someone sees themselves as, because you're going to have people that like to prey on the weak, you're going to have people that are noble and like to protect the weak, you're going to have people that are going to be weak, and you're going to have people that need to play god and try to control all they can control (shepherd).
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Quote:
Fits. Well, almost. If this was Montana then the Shepherd would indeed love the sheep,
Ohh Keeper, you are always good for a chuckle.
Team GREEN
Suspension Division - "Handling Before Horsepower"
Making the turns since 1999
1998 EK Civic Hatch - Yes, it's a Honda.
<takes a bow>
Thank you.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
To the servicemen in the audience.. thank you
a favorite quote:
Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
I plan on living forever... so far so good
^^ That quote was from "a few good men" where the character who spoke those words was charged with crimes right after saying them. It's a good quote, but knowing that he ordered the beating of a soldier under his command that died as a result of said beating takes away a lot from it.
.
John Wilken
2002 Cavalier
2.2 Vin code 4
Auto
so how does this bish who protested the memorial to the CMoH Recipient tie into the war in Iraq?
Because she is saying that soldiers aren't good role models, this obviously pisses them off. This bitch is @!#$ retarded. Hey people who defend US are bad people!
This lady owes everything she knows to soldiers! I don't agree that we should have ever went to Iraq to begin with, but that has no bearing on my feelings for those who serve. I do feel that we must stay there until the job is done now, but I HATE the current administration for sending our fine men and women over there and letting Osama escape us. I believe that after the "war" is over MOST people will find a common ground.
1) We should have found Osama before rushing into Iraq.
2) It's good that Saddam is gone, but we should have waited for help from other nations.
3) War is the worst way to achieve anything and should be a last resort, especially if you are working alone.
4) We had options that were blatantly ignored.
5) Iraq was no threat to us at the time we invaded.
I don't believe that we should police the world and I use to think that this applied to the invasion into Iraq. I have changed my mind since then, at some point we need to stabilize Iraq, and honestly the whole middle east(which I think is imposable). This must be done for security and resource reasons. The problem with this whole thing is that these regions have been at war for AGES and is powered by the desire for religious dominance, it will end when humans end. Religion breeds self-righteousness.
Actually, War is an acronym:
We
Are
Right
Gotta give credit to Wiley from the comic strip Non Sequitur on that, but it makes sense.
But on the converse, bigJ, not all soldiers are saints. They are like any otrher group of people where it's possible, and has happened, that some chugger has ruined it for the rest.
Just like everyone else.
However, unless i consider individual action, like the asshat that raped the Iraqi girl. I look at it like this. The wold doesn't blanme the sheep dog for the shepherd ordering it to attack.
However, if the wolf was smart, it would attach the shepherd rather than the sheep.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
^^^
Right. I'm not saying they are all saints, no one is, but they are good people for the most part. Therefore, they are good role models, you could choose MUCH worse. Would it be a bad thing if the youth looked up to soldiers instead of the worthless rappers they do now? It's a sad day when materialistic, arrogant, criminals are revered as heros and soldiers are not.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The government is no longer for the people.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
^^^I agree with you on that. I think it's just that the rappers have better marketing. I mean after all, it's not like most of them that are incredibly popular have any talent...
Of course, this is america. Anything popular here is based on the lowest common denominator and marketability to said denominator.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
bigj480 wrote:^^^
Right. I'm not saying they are all saints, no one is, but they are good people for the most part. Therefore, they are good role models, you could choose MUCH worse. Would it be a bad thing if the youth looked up to soldiers instead of the worthless rappers they do now? It's a sad day when materialistic, arrogant, criminals are revered as heros and soldiers are not.
Umm... you do realize that a lot of soldiers like rap and look up to rappers don't you?
But I get what you're saying. It's just that people who do good things are well... boring. We love our anti-heroes. We love bad guys who do bad things and get away with it.
Also, there's plenty of
gang members in the military and if I was fighting in Iraq I'd want to be in one of their platoon. Right or wrong would have nothing to do with it. I just wanna be around people who I know could murder anything that was a threat to them in less time than it takes the average guy to decide wether to fart or hold it in. Good people die rightously quick, bad people tend to die old in their bed; and if it's my life on the line I'd rather repent my sins than try to dig a bullet out of my chest with a pen knife while a 12 year old Iraqi laughs over me.
yeah, those soldiers must be confused
Ya got me there, honestly I listen to a LITTLE rap here and there, but it's certainly not for the message they preach. I don't think "we" like bad guys, I tend to find a vengeful good guy more interesting. Gang members in the military, what? Put those bastards on the front line, and FYI, gang members aren't known for their great marksmanship. I'd rather be around a bunch of rednecks, I doubt it will be there first time using a rifle and I would bet money that they are better marksmen.
BTW: This good guy will not go quietly.
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
So, then it begets the question: Which is worse to look up to--the rapers that advocate driveby shootings and killing innocent bystanders, or the Black Metal scene in europe where they burn down churches with no one inside of them in protest.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
I would say neither, but if I had to pick it would be Black Metal groups, only because the don't physically hurt others. It's not really widespread, is it?
_________________________________________________________________
-There is no such thing as objective journalism, there never was.
-The government is best which governs least.
-The forefathers were not necessarily right.
-Religion breeds self-righteousness.
-Ignoring problems rarely fixes them.
-All men are CREATED equal.
-We DO legislate morality.
-Justice does not exist.
-Rely only on yourself.
-Legalize marihuana.
-Gun control kills!
No, but enough to take notice, and I have to say, i stand by the reasons they do it.
Not because I'm against the church, per se. Mainly because in the regions they do that in, Way back when the region was pagan, the invading Christians would torch the villages, and put swordas to peoples necks saying "Renounce your Gods and worship ours, and give your criops and belongings to us in the name of our god or will will kill you and your family and rape your women." In which the survivors were then forced to build the churches on what was Pagan holy ground.
Keep in mind this happened before the 12th century AD, but old wounds die hard. If you don't believe me on that statement, just look at the Jews and the Muslims on that.
Unfortunately, there are many cases where Religious freaks aren't cool like hahaha or UpstateNY or Machel (and i'm not considering those people "freaks"--i know they are outspoken in their religion but also put the best foot forward concerning it and not come off like rat bastards about it.)
And don't get me wrong, there are many others here like that, and there are people close to my beliefs that deserve to be shot in the nutsack with grapeshot.
Goodbye Callisto & Skađi, Hello Ishara:
2022 Kia Stinger GT2 AWD
The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
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