ecotec more power than claimed? - Performance Forum
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this is a topic purely based on my expieriences with the ecotec 2.2 in my '03 sunfire and does not condone street racing in any way. i am posting this to find out information based on these expieriences that have lead me to belive this motor is much more powerful than it is said to be. please do not flame me, im still trying to find out a way to prove these outcomes. this has been going on for about a year now....and im still trying to figure out the following....
well, i drive an 03 sunfire, 5 speed.....anyways, i have been through many experiences that have lead me to belive either;
a. the ecotec is much more powerful than 140hp
b. every single driver ive come across (over hundreds of people) extremely suck at racing (which cannot be true)
c. i have some sort of unique outcast version of a sunfire that is more powerful than others...
here we go, ill list a series of cars i have defeated in short spurt or 1/4mile races, with a minor explanation, and you tell me what you think.
96 volkswagen GTI VR6, a claimed 180-200hp and even torque, 15 sec 1/4mile; i have matched and or slightly pulled on these cars, several of which ive raced.
98 honda prelude, a claimed 200hp and a 15.2 second 1/4/mile; i am DEAD EVEN with these.
96/prior honda prelude H22, also a claimed 180-200hp, several of which ive DEFEATED.
BMW 323ci, claimed 215hp; ive beaten one with about a car length of gap.
BMW 325i, claimed 215-220hp of which ive put minor inches on
early 90's Mustang 5.0L; i keep dead even with these cars till later 4th gear.
and of course the civics and integras of the bunch. the preludes had bolt-on mods and the bimmers were stock, one of the VR6's had full exhaust.
these are my top defeats and several of them have lead to conversations with the drivers assuring me that they were actually trying.
now, im past my little new driver raceing attitude, and i stick to the track, but with these expieriences i am dumbfounded by this cars clear power ability. i had a friend in a CRX that had a 14.9 second 1/4mile timeslip and he barely even had a car on me.
my sunfire is BONE STOCK! and he is a much better driver than i am.
can someone please explain to me what is going on here? im still waiting on a chance to prove this with videos or timeslips, but i am convinced, as well as other people are, that my sunfire is running a "15 second" 1/4mile. this car stock is supposed to run 16.2.
so why is my car so fast? i drive 135hp mazda proteges all day and i can tell you they have nowhere near the pull that my sunfire does. and thats a 5 hp difference.
i know torque is a factor, but 150 ft/lbs isnt that much either.
please enlighten me, and i thank anyone for responding.
not gonna comment..... although i am a ecotec believer, i dont think it could beat all of those cars.... Maybe they werent trying? hahhaha
but yeha.. i have let people take my car for a spin, and they have said its prety peppy <br>
____________________________________
2004 Cavalier ~ 15.98 - Bone Stock
fil zed wrote:this is a topic purely based on my expieriences with the ecotec 2.2 in my '03 sunfire and does not condone street racing in any way. i am posting this to find out information based on these expieriences that have lead me to belive this motor is much more powerful than it is said to be. please do not flame me, im still trying to find out a way to prove these outcomes. this has been going on for about a year now....and im still trying to figure out the following....
well, i drive an 03 sunfire, 5 speed.....anyways, i have been through many experiences that have lead me to belive either;
a. the ecotec is much more powerful than 140hp
b. every single driver ive come across (over hundreds of people) extremely suck at racing (which cannot be true)
c. i have some sort of unique outcast version of a sunfire that is more powerful than others...
here we go, ill list a series of cars i have defeated in short spurt or 1/4mile races, with a minor explanation, and you tell me what you think.
96 volkswagen GTI VR6, a claimed 180-200hp and even torque, 15 sec 1/4mile; i have matched and or slightly pulled on these cars, several of which ive raced.
98 honda prelude, a claimed 200hp and a 15.2 second 1/4/mile; i am DEAD EVEN with these.
96/prior honda prelude H22, also a claimed 180-200hp, several of which ive DEFEATED.
BMW 323ci, claimed 215hp; ive beaten one with about a car length of gap.
BMW 325i, claimed 215-220hp of which ive put minor inches on
early 90's Mustang 5.0L; i keep dead even with these cars till later 4th gear.
and of course the civics and integras of the bunch. the preludes had bolt-on mods and the bimmers were stock, one of the VR6's had full exhaust.
these are my top defeats and several of them have lead to conversations with the drivers assuring me that they were actually trying.
now, im past my little new driver raceing attitude, and i stick to the track, but with these expieriences i am dumbfounded by this cars clear power ability. i had a friend in a CRX that had a 14.9 second 1/4mile timeslip and he barely even had a car on me.
my sunfire is BONE STOCK! and he is a much better driver than i am.
can someone please explain to me what is going on here? im still waiting on a chance to prove this with videos or timeslips, but i am convinced, as well as other people are, that my sunfire is running a "15 second" 1/4mile. this car stock is supposed to run 16.2.
so why is my car so fast? i drive 135hp mazda proteges all day and i can tell you they have nowhere near the pull that my sunfire does. and thats a 5 hp difference.
i know torque is a factor, but 150 ft/lbs isnt that much either.
please enlighten me, and i thank anyone for responding.
I would bet every dime I got that my car could run at least a 16.2... I have an 04 with an AUTOMATIC!!
I have owned a 98 Grand Prix GT, 00 Grand Prix GTP, 01 Grand Am GT , 2002 Hyundai Elantra GLS 5-speed and a 1996 Bonneville before this car (not tomention about 20 others before that in my lifetime) I GUARANTEE my automatic Cavalier sedan is a little slower than the Grand Am GT and probbably FASTER THAN a Grand Am SE V6. This little Cavalier could kick the @!#$ out of my old 5-speed Elantra as well, and those supposedly run 16.4 in the 1/4 with a 5-speed.
I run into the occasional stop light challange, and it is pretty surprising the outcomes. I get ruber from a dead stop without braketorquing, I don't even have to floor it all the way and the tires are newer AND I live in Colorado about 5500ft. above sea level.
So no, you don't have a freak engine, I think they are all like this. Yes, I am convinced it has about 10 more HP and 10 more Ft.Lbs of torque than what is advertised.
Interesting to note that the Malibu Classic with the Ecotec is advertised as having 145HP and 155Ft.Lbs of torque. I would bet $$ it is no different than ours, not differnt ECU tuning, nothing.
Older VR6 Jettas are fun to kill, I beat those all the time with the Grand Prix GT and Grand AM GT, however, I got beat by a 2.4 Z24 5-speed in my Grand Am GT... buy a measure farther than I would like to admit at the time.
So your story makes sense.
all i can say is that they are just quick and under rated
look at the redline ion they are putting more power to the wheels than they are rated
i dyno tested mine before i ordered the turbo kit. i got 127 at the wheels with an open muffler, so i doubt it has more power than whats rated. The only answer i can up with on upsets racing cars is more torque than power. every car i have owned that had more torque than rated hp always pulled stronger up to about 4th gear. Most Nissans are this way. MY old 240sx only had 155 stock hp but 160 lbs torque. My altima and sentra were this way as well.
look at saabs history. this will explain somewhat as well. they have a history of more torquey motors where Honda has a lower torque motor. Torque gets you out of the hole and up and running while your competition watches until they catch you depending on your hp numbers and theirs.
then, there are alot of drivers that really dont know how to race. believe it or not, alot of people are this way.
try brushing up some skill by racing 1/8th mile tracks competing for best times and trying your best to pull down some time. after you accomplish that skill then race the 1/4 track and see what a huge difference it makes. many people win a race by learning when and how to take off from the line. this is important since ecotecs are best at take off. it could be the difference of winning or losing a race.
just my little 2 cents.
Yea I belive what you say,I think it is underated. I keep up with a lot of v6's. And I have only minor mods.
Beware the Rouge Dragon.
Mike Andrews wrote: i got 127 at the wheels with an open muffler.
You probbably heve less HP than stock with an open muffler. I am sure you notice you lost low end pull after you removed the muffler.
Mike 2200 wrote: I would bet every dime I got that my car could run at least a 16.2... I have an 04 with an AUTOMATIC!!
I have actually hit a 15.2 with my 2003 Automatic.
Mike 2200 wrote:Interesting to note that the Malibu Classic with the Ecotec is advertised as having 145HP and 155Ft.Lbs of torque. I would bet $$ it is no different than ours, not differnt ECU tuning, nothing.
Also interesting is that the Saturn Vue claims 143HP and 152Ft.Lbs of torque!! <br>
JCO WEST - WINDSOR/ESSEX COUNTY REP
Jon H. wrote:
I have actually hit a 15.2 with my 2003 Automatic.
What mods?
open muffler
what i meant by that was an aftermarket muffler which was a straight through design. i know better than to go without one. the stock exhuast pipe is too restrictive also. anyway, cool, continue on.
I agree with all of you cavaliers are so overrated its sick everyone in a civic and focus where i live think they are hot @!#$ , and I will blow by them all day, but keeping to subject i raced a new turbo bettle, and a focus svt and beat both by about 1-2 car lenghts and i only have minor mods. (intake,highflow cat , and exhaust)
fil zed wrote:this is a topic purely based on my expieriences with the ecotec 2.2 in my '03 sunfire and does not condone street racing in any way. i am posting this to find out information based on these expieriences that have lead me to belive this motor is much more powerful than it is said to be. please do not flame me, im still trying to find out a way to prove these outcomes. this has been going on for about a year now....and im still trying to figure out the following....
well, i drive an 03 sunfire, 5 speed.....anyways, i have been through many experiences that have lead me to belive either;
a. the ecotec is much more powerful than 140hp
b. every single driver ive come across (over hundreds of people) extremely suck at racing (which cannot be true)
c. i have some sort of unique outcast version of a sunfire that is more powerful than others...
here we go, ill list a series of cars i have defeated in short spurt or 1/4mile races, with a minor explanation, and you tell me what you think.
96 volkswagen GTI VR6, a claimed 180-200hp and even torque, 15 sec 1/4mile; i have matched and or slightly pulled on these cars, several of which ive raced.
98 honda prelude, a claimed 200hp and a 15.2 second 1/4/mile; i am DEAD EVEN with these.
96/prior honda prelude H22, also a claimed 180-200hp, several of which ive DEFEATED.
BMW 323ci, claimed 215hp; ive beaten one with about a car length of gap.
BMW 325i, claimed 215-220hp of which ive put minor inches on
early 90's Mustang 5.0L; i keep dead even with these cars till later 4th gear.
and of course the civics and integras of the bunch. the preludes had bolt-on mods and the bimmers were stock, one of the VR6's had full exhaust.
these are my top defeats and several of them have lead to conversations with the drivers assuring me that they were actually trying.
now, im past my little new driver raceing attitude, and i stick to the track, but with these expieriences i am dumbfounded by this cars clear power ability. i had a friend in a CRX that had a 14.9 second 1/4mile timeslip and he barely even had a car on me.
my sunfire is BONE STOCK! and he is a much better driver than i am.
can someone please explain to me what is going on here? im still waiting on a chance to prove this with videos or timeslips, but i am convinced, as well as other people are, that my sunfire is running a "15 second" 1/4mile. this car stock is supposed to run 16.2.
so why is my car so fast? i drive 135hp mazda proteges all day and i can tell you they have nowhere near the pull that my sunfire does. and thats a 5 hp difference.
i know torque is a factor, but 150 ft/lbs isnt that much either.
please enlighten me, and i thank anyone for responding.
I know exactly how you feel, i have also beat some of the cars on that list and it amazed me. I figured a stock ecotec would run low 16's but when you run something that runs low 15's and you beat it, you know your car has something different about it. Most the people that i have raced couldnt believe it, all of them thought that i had a turbocharger or even an engine swap. I pop my hood and they just dont believe it. The ecotec cavaliers are so underrated to everyone without one until you race them. But this car has surprised me too.
1 back you 100% man i beatin most of those cars on ur list too.
i duno what it is maybe it is under rated but who knows.
...I just took down a 99+ Mustang V6 5-speed last night with the 04 auto Cavi more than one time...
I would't believe me either but it's true, he even ripped out going into 2nd gear.
If you guys look at the story of the GM drag team using 2.0 Ecotecs, they concluded that with only lightairflow and exhaust tuning, they were able to achieve 168 hp at the flywheel. You will always get a lower number than that at the wheels because of friction, and other parts in the drivetrain not completely transfering power. 127hp at the wheels is pretty good, probably better than stock 140 at the flywheel. <br>
"When the levee breaks, momma you got to move" - Led Zeppelin
Man, I was born twenty years too late. I wish they were still around.
this is kinda funny but my 03 sunfire is the same way. would be nice to have some sorta outcast version of the sunfire
I have 04 Cavalier with 5-speed and intake and muffler at the time (past October) at rock falls raceway and ran a 15.5 @ 88 mph which I thought was pretty good for almost stock car!! A kid with a turbo'd civic only ran 15.7.......It was a little warm that day,but was impressed I was doing so well with just an air filter and a muffler. The ECOtec engine is GM's answer to the import scene. Alot of thought was put in to performance as well as of corse fuel economy. When the eco went after the sport compact spped record they smashed the progress civic (187mph) with a whopping 228 mph. Also HOYO is the current fastest FWD car @ 7.40 and knocking on the door of 200mph
127 hp at the wheels is really good. That would only be 13hp loss in the drive train. I don't know the average drive loss but if someone does take that % and you should come up with more than a 13hp loss. The ecotec is a really nice engine. In my 03 Cav 5spd I ran a 9.981 @ 68.25 in the 1/8 bone stock.
HMMM so all u @!#$s are saying that u have beat cars with like 45+hp and 20 more fp tourqe? maybe with NOS or turbo but i doubt with simple boltons these stories are true. Unless every race has been a against VERY @!#$ty drivers especially the 04 automatic against a gtp......my friends bolted out prelude thats throws down 195hp to the ground and 175 tourqe barely beats a stock gtp and ur saying u can do this with a 127hp car? doesnt make any sense to me
Until i see vids of this and a list of mods im calling all of these stories BULL@!#$! blah
yea i always here good things about the ecotec.
the guys workingon my car were saying how strong of an engine it is and they wish they could work on thses engines more often b/c tjhey are really good.
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